From: "Hamaker, Charles" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:40:41 +0000

Joe Esposito says:
"please answer the question of how it is if publishers add no value,
as Chuck, implied why are some publishers so much more successful than
others?"

Joe, if that's what you've taken from what I've said that isn't what I
intended. I've been pretty vocal on the importance of version of
record. Am stalwartly behind peer review, which afterall publishers
organize.

I think I've been pretty consistent in support of those functions.
They seem to me to be the hallmarks of publisher expertise, add in
savy about choosing an excellent editor, name recognition on an ed
board, and lots of money to go to conferences and "find" the authors
doing the research....

But Peer review is done for free (not as someone suggested for pay) by
researchers themselves,

The version of record is IMO critical and in my experience with major
publishers it is primarily the author's responsibility to geti the
text right. I've spent countless hours correcting those darned
citations! And corrections to text in my experience have been pretty
much frowned upon by publishers, they don't like changes much.
Publishers do the fancy look stuff-or hire it out.

But all the other stuff, the REAL cost of an article is in the
research, the researcher's and author's time, salary of the author,
lab equipment.  As Peggy Hoon so eloquently pointed out, all the costs
are elsewhere and the publisher gets the gold wonka bar?
Strange system.

Just trying to clarify.

Chuck Hamaker


-----Original Message-----

From: Joseph Esposito <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:50:11 -0500

Sorry you don't find the bauxite analogy illuminating, but let's heed
Joan Baez:  "Then give me another word for it/You who are so good with
words":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGMHSbcd_qI

And whatever metaphor you choose, please answer the question of how it
is if publishers add no value, as Chuck, implied, why are some
publishers so much more successful than others?  I would have thought
that when you multiply by zero, you get zero.

As for Jennifer Howard's question to Alicia Wise, I should mention
that I have never met Wise. I would expect her to distance herself
from the analogy, as any publisher would.  Keeping authors happy is
what publishers do.

Joe Esposito