From: Joseph Esposito <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:27:27 -0400

Over the years on this list I have wondered if I disagreed with
Jean-Claude on principle or in practice.  I have gone back and forth
on this, but now conclude that our differences are of principle.  With
many others, matters swing the other way.  For example, I disagree
almost across the board on principle with such pundits as Peter
Brantley and Barbara Fister, but their practical solutions are
appealing.  And I agree wholeheartedly with the philosophical
positions of the AAP, but I disagree with their actions.  Up to now I
have always viewed Jean-Claude's views as something of a rehearsal for
a round of negotiations.  But now it's apparent to me that he views
the world in a fundamentally different way.  I think, then, we can
find accord in practice and leave our philosophical disputes at the
bar.

Specifically, Jean-Claude cites the fact that much, even most research
is funded by governments and thus the publications resulting from that
research should be available to all--hence open access.  He posits
further that we are on an inexorable march in that direction, citing
the examples of several nations.  His view is that taxpayers have paid
and will pay for this, so let's get the migration to OA over.

I sit not in glorious Canada nor in enlightened Europe, but in the
land of the yahoos, where even research into political science is
viewed disdainfully by our elected officials.  We needn't get into the
views of the political class on evolution or climate change, nor
should we ponder the declaration of an official that toy guns should
be banned because they could be confused with (legitimate) real ones.
I search for public support for the funding of research and the
publications that derive from it and find nothing.  There are
proposals to end Medicaid for the poor, to shut down public
television, to reduce or eliminate student loans, to ban pediatricians
from discussing the danger of firearms with the parents of their
patients, but support for the research community?  Better to think of
the cosmopolitan segment of the population as a cult, marooned on an
island who-knows-where and susceptible to the tsunami of
narrow-mindedness and bitterness.

Where I differ with Jean-Claude is that I cannot bring myself to hope
where he is passionate.  My view--my practical view--is that the
economic performance of mission-based organizations must be addressed
without recourse to government intervention.  We are on our own, for
better or worse.  We can curse the commercial organizations and even
the charitable societies that behave like commercial entities, but in
the end we will have to get on with this business under our own
management and with our own skills and capital.

I wish it were otherwise, but I read the news today, oh boy.

Joe Esposito



On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:13 PM, LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: "Guédon Jean-Claude" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:05:02 -0400
>
> I question this figure, Sandy. For example, the 6,000 academic
> journals vetted by Latindex in Latin America are all supported by
> academic institutions.
>
> Also academic presses are not alone on the non-profit side of things:
> association publications also exist, and they do not all behave like
> the American Chemical Society.
>
> I was using the example of U. presses in the US to show that, even
> there, subsidies had existed until well after the 2nd WW.
>
> Jean-Claude Guédon
> Professeur titulaire
> Littérature comparée
> Université de Montréal
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Sandy Thatcher <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 20:30:47 -0500
>
> And the amount of academic publishing done by university presses is
> dwarfed by that done by for-profit, private companies. Yes, knowledge
> of history can be helpful . . . . :)
>
> Sandy Thatcher
>
>
> At 6:11 PM -0400 4/30/13, LIBLICENSE wrote:
>
> > From: "Guédon Jean-Claude" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:03:17 -0400
> >
> > Public subsidies are already the case, to a greater or lesser extent,
> > in many countries or groups of countries. For example: Canada, France,
> > Italy, the countries of Latin America, Europe + South Africa
> > supporting SciELO, etc...
> >
> > Perversely, these public subsidies sometimes go to supporting private
> > companies (the French case is a very good example of this situation).
> >
> > The US will probably be the last country to adopt such a system, once
> > Britain relents..., but the university presses of old used to be
> > subsidized by public or non-profit universities. That was the idea
> > behind the creation of Johns Hopkins University Press. Some knowledge
> > of history can be helpful in this regard.
> >
> >
> > Jean-Claude Guédon
> > Professeur titulaire
> > Littérature comparée
> > Université de Montréal