From: Sandy Thatcher <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 22:59:51 -0500

But I think you underestimate, Joe, how much the mission affects the
economics. Presses often make decisions about pricing, making books
available in paperback, etc. that are not necessarily driven by the
need to maximize income but rather to serve other interests, such as
maximizing the distribution of copies at as cheap a price as possible,
subject only to the constraint that the press needs to earn enough to
stay in business. And when presses and libraries cooperate in ventures
like Project Muse, those ventures reflect the values and missions of
both parties.

Sandy Thatcher


> From: Joseph Esposito <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 22:07:07 -0400
>
> Sandy,
>
> I think this perspective obscures the nature of the relationship.
> Publishers are vendors, libraries customers.  Of course they share
> some overarching values: representative democracy, the rule of law,
> respect for others' religion, etc.  But that level of abstraction
> doesn't reach to the details of how publishers and libraries actually
> operate--and that is in their impersonal economic dimension.  This is
> neither good nor bad; it just is.  And economic relationships need not
> be characterized by greed or guile (what I would call poor branding).
> But in the end it is the economic relationships that define us.
>
> And as to Richard's comment that we built this system, well, no.
> Isn't that the point of the principle of the Invisible Hand, that it
> is independent of ourselves?
>
> I think people would be better at their jobs, feel less frustrated,
> and probably be more at peace with themselves if they understood that
> an economic relationship is an economic relationship.  Plenty of room
> in our lives for other things, but publishers sell and libraries buy.
>
> Joe Esposito
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 8:31 PM, LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  From: Sandy Thatcher <[log in to unmask]>
>>  Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:09:53 -0500
>>
>>  One would hope that at least one kind of publisher, the university
>>  press, shares the overarching values and priorities of academic
>>  librarians and scholars. There are prominent examples of them working
>>  together in enterprises like Project Muse, and in some instances the
>>  library and press are in the same administrative unit, and faculty are
>>  involved with all presses as members of their editorial boards.  These
>>  relationships do not mean that there cannot be disagreements, such as
>>  over copyright, but when push comes to shove, university presses have
>>  more in common with the people on their own campuses than they do with
>>  commercial publishers whose priorities ultimately are driven by the
>>  need to make profits.
>>
>>  Sandy Thatcher