From: Jan Velterop <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:46:13 +0000 Joe, isn't this already happening? And isn't this why a system based on submission fees hasn't successfully emerged yet? The competition (subscription-based journals) are offering free promotions (to authors) all the time. They have found people who pay them through the back door (librarians, paying for subscriptions, as long as it lasts). "In a competitive market you can never be smarter than your stupidest competitor." The words are yours. This discussion is called "Future of the Subscription Model". The fundamental issue here is that the subscription model is simply not suited to an environment where maximum distribution is possible without marginal cost, and what is being distributed is not consumable (in the sense that it disappears if you consume it). In the bible there is a story about 'loaves and fish'. Allegorical (I presume). But scientific information in the internet environment is like the biblical loaves and fish. Albeit not food for the body, but food for thought. Scientific thought. Jan On 7 Dec 2011, at 01:25, LIBLICENSE wrote: There was an earlier comment on this thread (which I lost, alas) to the effect that one way to build an author-pays service is with a fee for submission rather than for publication. This is a great idea, and in a world without ruinous competition (John D. Rockefeller's phrase), it would work beautifully, as it aligns the cost to authors with the actual cost of delivering the service. But what happens when your competitor offers a free Christmas promotion? Of if eLife takes 10 years to figure out a business model? In a competitive market, you can never be smarter than your stupidest competitor, and if that competitor wants to give away the store, I can see your store loaded onto someone else's truck. Joe Esposito