From: "Jean-Claude Guédon" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 08:17:18 -0400 I was the one mentioning the relationship between the Canadian fair deal and US fair use. I did not say they were the same; I said that the Canadian evolution of its copyright legislation brought it closer to American fair use. Reading messages carefully is the first necessary step in any discussion. The fact that the new fair deal is a blanket exception is a plus in my perspective. This makes the law far more useful to the less powerful elements of society that do not have the resources to litigate against the likes of Elsevier. As for the educational textbook market, one might wonder why there should be a textbook market at all. With multiple and frequent editions resting on minimal changes work to impede the resale of these textbooks from one class to the next, the only ones suffering are students. Should this not enter into the equation at a time when student debt in the US is at a maximum? Open educational resources need to be developed. If the Canadian textbook "market" is "worse", this may be a very good piece of news. Perhaps, it (the market) can disappear altogether and be replaced by a more cooperative- and community-driven organizational scheme. There are quite a few interesting experiments in various countries by the way. I hope they point to the future. A lot of education is supported by public money. Perhaps that public money could include the production of teaching materials as well. The point of textbooks is education, not market; the same is true of scholarly journals and monographs: their point is research, not market. The trump reference? When someone in a debate quotes someone that is ostensibly in the very same camp, the value of that testimony becomes problematic. Jean-Claude Guédon Le mercredi 02 novembre 2016 à 20:24 -0400, LIBLICENSE a écrit : From: "Seeley, Mark (ELS-CMA)" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 01:27:25 +0000 As far as I can tell, the complaints against the PWC report amount to how terrible the educational textbook market is globally (which is true, but Canada is worse), and the timing of copyright law decisions in Canada vs the copyright law changes made in 2012-- but I think the two are highly related and the statutory changes reflect the (poorly reasoned) prior decisions. Finally someone says that that the Canadian educational exception is the same as US fair use law-- that is wrong as well given the US is still based on individual fact-based judicial determinations (based on the four factors), not a blanket exception. I think the PWC report has plenty of clear facts and evidence, and there is no real significant dispute that licensing revenues for the sector is down enormously. That's a very clear fact that I don't think anyone can dispute. When I gave the reference for the PWC report I was very clear that it came from Access Copyright-- so a clear disclosure. I have no idea what the Trump reference below means. Best, Mark Mark Seeley, Senior Vice President & General Counsel Elsevier : Direct: +1 (781) 663-2241; Mobile: +1 (781) 354-4429 : [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: "Jean-Claude Guédon" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:35:19 -0400 This article is not terribly surprising. In fact, the reverse would have been amazing. Nicole Saint-jean is the very militant president of the Association Nationale des Éditeurs de Livres (National Association of Book Editors) in Québec. They have fought the extensions of Fair dealing in Canada with teeth and nails. As for the reaction from Mark Seely (Elsevier) quoting a report paid for by Access Copyright, I find it quite amusing: Access Copyright "is a collective voice of creators and publishers in Canada." (https://www.accesscopyright.ca/about-us/). Someone from Elsevier quoting Access Copyright is a bit like Mrs Trump quoting her husband. Not terribly convincing, folks... Incidentally, what these people are complaining about is essentially Canada moving its fair deal provision closer to the US fair use provision, particularly for the educational sector. Jean-Claude Guédon Le dimanche 30 octobre 2016 à 18:35 -0400, LIBLICENSE a écrit : From: Ann Shumelda Okerson <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 08:30:48 -0400 I was interested to see this short article: Canadian Copyright Modernization Act: Chronicle of a Disaster Foretold http://publishingperspectives.com/2016/10/canadian-copyright-modernization-act-chronicle-disaster-foretold/#.WAhzuph97gE It goes like this: "November 7, 2017, will mark the fifth anniversary since the Copyright Modernization Act came into force in Canada. But the act has brought enormous disruption to the book economy, which is based largely on the intangible capital that is copyright. For many Canadian authors, creators, and publishers, this act has been nothing short of a disaster." Any folks on the list who can comment or have a perspective on the above statement? It certainly caught my attention. Thank you, Ann Okerson