From: leo waaijers <[log in to unmask]> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 10:43:05 +0200 I agree with David. The Dutch situation is as follows. Every year we pay 12 million Euro to Elsevier (apart from price indexing). Until 2015, for that amount they gave us access to 2500 journals and published 6000 articles of Dutch corresponding authors. From 2016 onwards, they were prepared to make a limited number of these articles OA. This year it concerns 1800 articles in 420 journals. If we want the other 4200 articles made OA as well, we have to pay an average surcharge of nearly 3000 Euro per article. This is a bad contract of course, but at the time Dutch academia were not prepared for a no-deal. Now we are. The contract ends this year and negotiations are under way. Elsevier has to come up with a better offer or meet a new member of the club of no-deal countries. More information about the Dutch offsetting deals may be found here: https://www.qoam.eu/Content/documents/Price-per-article.pdf Leo Waaijers. From: David Prosser <[log in to unmask]> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:31:11 +0000 A couple of comments. Firstly, Gemma mentions the ‘journal subscription list prices’. Data from Elsevier shows that less than 10% of their journals revenue comes from customers paying list prices. Most are paying through big deals and so any list price adjustment is irrelevant. Secondly, a sample of 36 UK institutions showed that in 2016 they were paying a 17% premium on top of their big deals to make UK-authored papers OA. The vast majority of that was for hybrid i.e., content that was included in the big deal subscription price. David On 25 May 2018, at 03:19, LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: "Hersh, Gemma (ELS-LOW)" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 20:08:54 +0000 Hi I wanted to clarify one of the comments made below regarding double dipping. Elsevier has a strict no double dipping policy, as described here <https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/pricing#dipping>. Our journal subscription list prices are calculated based only on the subscription articles in a journal. We do not charge twice for access to the same article. Understandably, as open access content continues to grow, some have wondered why this is not translating into a corresponding decrease in subscription prices. And this is fueling concern about double dipping. However, it is important to note that while OA is growing, the subscription model is growing too. Certainly for Elsevier, the volume and quality of the articles we publish continues to grow, across both the subscription and open access business models. Kind regards Gemma Gemma Hersh VP, Open Science Elsevier I 125 London Wall I London I EC2Y 5AS M: +44 (0) 7855 258 957 I E: [log in to unmask] *Twitter: @gemmahersh*