From: SANFORD G THATCHER <[log in to unmask]> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 21:39:54 -0400 I was just referring, a little tongue in cheek, to your last paragraph about the impossibility of controlling the behavior of 35,000 users, and giving this as one example of a behavior that would be well nigh impossible to control. Sorry if that didn't come across in the way I intended it. Sandy On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 05:09 PM LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >From: Peggy E Hoon <[log in to unmask]> >Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 14:40:27 +0000 > >I’m sorry, Sandy, I’m not following you. The behavior you reference, in >addition to not being allowed within any terms and conditions I have seen, >would also be a violation of our Computer Use policy. Again, I cannot >‘promise’ or ‘ensure’ - ahead of time, that any individual *will not* do >that but I can, and certainly would strongly discourage it as a license >violation and respond immediately should we become aware of it. I am not >aware of anyone at LSU doing this but, I can assure you, that both the LSU >Libraries and LSU IT Security would jump on that behavior, not only for the >reasons I have said above, but also it poses a potential security breach >into the LSU systems. > >If I have missed your point, my apologies. We pay millions and millions of >dollars a year to subscribe to our licensed resources and we/I have pretty >strong feelings about that being misused as you have described and >jeopardizing access for the rest of our Authorized Users. > >Please let me know, either on list or off, if I have misunderstood your >comment and/or how I might provide any further clarification. > >Best, >Peggy > > >From: SANFORD G THATCHER <[log in to unmask]> >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:46:41 -0400 > >Behavior such as faculty members giving their access codes to Sci-Hub? :) > > >On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 04:27 AM LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>From: Peggy E Hoon <[log in to unmask]> >>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:10:23 +0000 >> >>Completely agree with Cindy – in these licenses, you are the lending >>library. As Cindy says, the CONTU Guidelines applied to borrowing >>libraries since it was a way – deemed reasonable in 1978 based on the >>environment, practices, journal price and market, library budgets, etc., in >>existence in the mid-1970s – to interpret what might trigger the ‘need’, >>under Section 108, to subscribe based on the amount of the journal you were >>using. CONTU was trying to put numbers on what constituted a substitute >>for a subscription in 1978, which, btw, was 40 years ago, is not the law, >>was not intended as a hard and fast rule, and was supposed to evolve as the >>environment evolved. As a lending library, you cannot possibly know or >>monitor what a borrowing library is or is not doing with respect to either >>Section 108 or its 1978 interpretation, aka CONTU. Putting that in a >>license amounts to essentially throw-away language since a lending library >>does not have the obligation, under the law or any guidelines, or the >>ability to monitor or control what a borrowing library does. As Cindy and >>others recommend, it really makes no sense to have it there because it >>doesn’t do anything. >> >>An analogy would be when a license attempts to require the institution to >>“warrant” or “ensure” or “promise” that its users (in our case, >35,000) >>will/shall abide by the terms and conditions of the license. Really? So >>far, neither I nor any of the Vendors I have asked point blank, have been >>able to tell me one single thing the institution can do to prospectively >>control the behavior of my 35,000 users. Nada. I can use reasonable >>measure to control access, to inform them of T&Cs and to respond to >>perceived situations but I cannot promise or warrant their behavior. So, >>don’t do it. >> >>Best, >>Peggy >> >>*Peggy E. Hoon, J.D.* >> >>Director of Copyright Policy and Education >>LSU Libraries >>Louisiana State University >>295 Middleton Library, Baton Rouge, LA 70803 >>office 225-578-2218 | fax 225-578-6825 >>lsu.edu <http://www.lsu.edu/> >> >>From: "KRISTOF, CYNTHIA" <[log in to unmask]> >>Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:20:58 +0000 >> >>Because CONTU is a set of guidelines with activities (such as tracking) >>that concern the borrowing library. The lending library has a couple duties >>in CONTU, too, but the weight is largely on the borrowing library. As you >>know ILL sections of licences concern what libraries can do as lenders. >>However, we can't control what the borrowing libraries do regarding CONTU >>tracking... therefore, it's largely absurd to agree to it in a license and >>potentially trouble. I know the potential trouble part is probably a long >>shot. I just got done vacuuming, so I'm kind of wiped out, and this >>probably isn't the best explanation! >> >>Maybe others can add to this? I hope this helps.