From: JJE Esposito <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 19:54:59 -0400

I really do not believe Eric's comment is apposite Alex's.  While I am sure
there are some librarians who are thieves, I have never met any.  The
situation with ResearchGate and Sci-Hub does not make librarians thieves.
Those services--clearly illegal in the case of Sci-Hub and arguably illegal
in the case of ResearchGate--are simply part of the environment today.
That is not librarians' fault or responsibility.  The legal status of those
services is what it is regardless of what librarians think.

The argument that has been put forth is not that librarians are doing
anything illegal but that they are the unwitting beneficiaries of an
environment where *other* people are doing illegal things.  So now you can
negotiate a better deal.  And why not?

I doubt any of us are not beneficiaries of some nasty business.  An
American who reads Howard Zinn is likely to choke on his latte.  But is
that a reason to stop going to Starbucks?

Joe Esposito



On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 7:09 PM LIBLICENSE <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Eric Elmore <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:52:51 +0000
>
> The underlying premise of the argument that librarians leverage an illegal
> site to avoid paying for content is that librarians are thieves.  When
> librarians say that’s not true and we don’t do that, we’re met with
> disbelief.  So not only are we thieves but liars to boot.  No offense
> intended I’m sure.
>
>
>
> If my inclusion of the blood-sucking part in my description of capitalism
> was hurtful and not up to the spirit of the list I do apologize.  I admit
> it was flippant and over the top and unnecessary.  The rest of my
> description however is accurate.  Capitalism IS a wealth extraction system,
> and for-profit entities in such a system have the primary goal of profit
> maximization do they not?  I’m sure it sounds better stated that way, but
> the essence is the same.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Alex Holzman <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:48:19 -0400
>
> Anthony is smarter than I to respond to Eric's post with sarcasm.  With
> all due respect, the post violates the spirit of this list, where
> librarians and publishers often strenuously disagree, but almost always
> remain entirely civil.  I don't speak for others, but as a former full-time
> and now part-time publisher, I don't appreciate being portrayed as a
> blood-sucking, money-grabbing beast.  I spent years in both commercial and
> non-profit publishing and worked with librarians over the decades and I can
> assure you the people on both sides of this issue, whatever their
> disagreements, are overwhelmingly good and decent people working to
> disseminate learning as broadly as they can.  (The post is also ignorant in
> its assumption that all publishers are for-profit, but that is kind of
> beside the point.)  I would like to believe this was a heat of the moment
> post because I don't know how any of us could resolve our issues if one
> side consists solely of devils (and the other of angels?).  And I don't
> know how any of us could actually believe such is the case.
>
>
>
> Alex Holzman
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph J. Esposito
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+Joseph Esposito